Killing Wolves To Save Wolves?

Wolf Hate

Example of Wolf Tolerance?

Jim…you beat me to it but you nailed it in your post  “Killing Wolves Provides “a Level of Tolerance”? 

Here’s my take.

It was pretty remarkable to hear Doug Smith, the Yellowstone wolf biologist, agree with Randy Newburg, on NPR, about the need to hunt wolves to increase tolerance for them.

“Randy Newberg hunts wolves and makes hunting television programs. He says tourists love wolves, but many people who live around them don’t like them and hate that the federal government forced wolves on them. He thinks wolf hunts are easing the animosity many local people feel toward the predator.”

Having these hunting seasons has provided a level of tolerance again,” Newberg says.

Smith says as much as he hates to lose a wolf as valuable as 832, he agrees.

To get support for wolves, you can’t have people angry about them all the time, and so hunting is going to be part of the future of wolves in the West. We’ve got to have it if we’re going to have wolves,” Smith says”.….WHQR 91,3 FM

I’d like to see one scientific study that supports this premise. Name one?

I would expect that rhetoric from Newburg but not Smith. Although it’s not all that surprising. In 2009, during Montana’s first wolf hunt, outrage erupted over hunters killing Yellowstone’s iconic Cottonwood Pack alpha female, 527f, her famous daughter 716f, the alpha male and one of their pups.  Very similar to the 06 Female and other Yellowstone wolf kills this year.

Cottonwood Pack alpha female 527f

Yellowstone’s Cottonwood Pack, alpha female, 527f, killed by a hunter one mile outside of Yellowstone, 2009

Smith said this:

“Despite any effects on his research, Smith still supports the Montana wolf hunting season.

Although some people have called for a buffer zone around Yellowstone’s borders to protect packs that roam over its edges, Smith doesn’t like that term. He said he’d rather see the season moved back to a time of the year that the more remote, mountainous terrain surrounding Yellowstone would be more difficult to access and when wolf pelts would be in better shape for harvest.“….Billings Gazette

And as you said Jim, who the hell cares if wolf hunters are happy? Ridiculously flawed logic. Mountain lions haven’t been hunted in California in two decades because the people of the state outlawed lion hunting. I’m sure there are lots of unhappy trophy hunters in California that would love to shoot a lion, in fact:

“The California Fish and Game Commission, created in 1870, manages California’s wildlife, which is the complete opposite of what its chief executive is doing. Since it’s illegal to do so in California, Daniel Richards, the president of the Commission, paid $7,000 to hunt and shoot a mountain lion in Idaho. Richards used professional guides and hounds to stalk the cougar through the forest, chase him up into a tree and shoot him. He then posed for a heartwarming photo with the carcass. Western Outdoor News wrote, “Asked about California’s mountain lion moratorium, Richards didn’t hesitate. ‘I’m glad it’s legal in Idaho.’” -….Global Animal

Just blowing off steam? Did he travel to Idaho and kill a lion to gain tolerance for the species? Inquiring minds want to know?

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Wolf hunting tolerance?

WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO

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Video: Shared Under Fair Use Doctrine

Top Photo: WWP

Middle Photo:  Billings Gazette: Wolf 527F, shown tranquilized in 2006, led a well-documented life after she was collared in Yellowstone National Park at the age of 2. Her shooting by a hunter on Oct. 3 has prompted criticism of Montana’s inaugural wolf hunting season.

Posted in: Wolf Wars

Tags: killing wolves to increase tolerance?, where’s the science?, Yellowstone wolves, Doug Smith, Randy Newburg, NPR interview, Billings Gazette, Global Animal, WHQR 91,3 FM

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Published in: on December 14, 2012 at 2:45 pm  Comments (42)  

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  1. The “idea” here is that you can turn wolves into the same class of animal as deer/elk that are managed to be populous so they can be hunted. This is not the case, most of the people killing wolves are doing it out of spite, hatred and rage.

    • Sounds to me like the equivalent of the only good wolf is a dead wolf. What a great way for a bunch of stupid, mean-spirited, sadistic bullies to build tolerance–just destroy what they don’t like.

  2. The poor wolf seems to be trying to lift his head at the very end of the video. I wonder if it wasn’t even a fatal shot – I bet these jerks enjoyed it either way – Letting him suffer some more, or ‘getting to shoot ‘im again’.

    Why don’t more people see just what dangerous, sociopathic monsters we are nurturing by enabling flat-out sadism and blood lust to be legally practiced under the guise of hunting and trapping? I would NOT want anyone like this living next door to me or dating my daughter – NO WAY IN HELL!

    • The shot definitely did not kill the wolf. It flopped around, kicking, and was lying with head raised at the end of the video while the 2 hicks were yucking it up. I sure would like to know the names and home towns of these two he-men who are so gleeful and proud at trapping and shooting. I’d like them to know how I feel. Shame on them and all the twisted psychos, including Wildlife “Services,” Fish & Game, and Doug Smith and his ilk. I cannot describe the depth of my revulsion.

  3. i think the Yellowstone wolf biologist should be fired ,if he is supporting the wolf kill..we should be preserving our wildlife.

  4. I hope that the wolves aren’t extirpated again before these killers get bored with killing them. It also seems to be spreading to Canada and Norway – we’re a bad influence. :(

  5. ^^and France too.

  6. These people are no better than the elephant killers. Lets hope they come back in their next life as a fly, and they get squashed early in life.

  7. That is a stupid ig.orant statement. That is not tolernce and perpetuates the evil and mean unfeeling uncaring autrocity on a beautiful animal that not only is a part of but also belps the ecosystem.

  8. HUMANS HAVE SO FAR PROVEN THEY DO NOT HAVE THE INTEGRITY AND THE HONOR TO BE CONSISTENT IN ANY CHOSEN PATH.

    USA AND CANADA DO NOT AT ALL FOLLOW DEMOCRACY. THESE COUNTRIES ARE MORALLY DESPICABLE AS WELL AS SPAIN FOR THE WAY THEY CONQUERED THE REAL NATIVES OF AMERICA AND THE MERCILESS HUNTING OF THE COUNTRIES NATIVE WILDLIFE TO DATE IN 2012.

    ONE WOULD EXPECT THESE COUNTRIES SHOULD HAVE GAINED SOME RESPECT FOR NATURE, FAUNA AND FLORA IN 500 YEARS, BUT THEY JUST AS BESTIALLY BARBARIC AS ALWAYS.

    APART FROM THE SAVAGE HUNTING SUCH SPORT KILLING SHOWS WHAT KIND OF DIGNITY AND CHARACTER ONE POSSESSES OF WHICH THESE COUNTRIES ARE SHORT OF.

    I FEEL BLESSED FOR NOT BEING AMERICAN, CANADIAN OR SPANISH. I AM AWARE THAT BARBARIC REPULSIVE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS ARE RAMPANT AROUND THE GLOBE BUT USA CANADA AND SPAIN DON’T EVEN TRY TO HIDE THEIR DEEDS.

    WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE HUMAN DIVINE BEINGS WITH A CONSCIOUS, COMPASSION AND LOVE FOR ALL LIVING CREATURES. I AM VEGAN AS HEALTHY AS A HORSE AND AM 76 YEARS.

    WE HAVE AN HERBIVOROUS DIGESTIVE SYSTEM WITH METERS LONG INTESTINES. CARNIVORS HAVE VERY SHORT INTESTINES TO PREVENT THE FLESH TO ROT INSIDE THE ANIMAL.

    VERY SOON ALL ON EARTH IS GOING TO CHANGE RADICALLY
    AND I HOPE SOMEBODY AT THE TOP OF THE LATHER READS
    THIS MESSAGE AND HAVE A CHANGE OF HEART AND STOP THE MASSACRE “N O W” FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR SANITY.

    • amen

  9. Very disheartening to have these sorts of people “representing” the wolves.
    Statistics have shown that many of those convicted of heinous crimes first tortured animals.
    We have much to learn from our 4 footed ones about how to live and work together without nonsensical cruelty.

  10. BY THE WAY I HAVE NO INTENTION TO HURT ANYBODY’S FEELINGS BY SOUNDING TOO JUDGEMENTAL OF AMERICANS, CANADIANS OR SPANISH. I SADLY HAVE SOME SPANISH BLOOD IN ME!!!
    I KNOW THERE ARE MORE GOOD PEOPLE THAN BAD GLOBALLY, THANK HEAVEN.
    UNFORTUNATELY THE BAD ONES CAUSE UPROAR BECAUSE OF THEIR BESTIAL DEEDS AND GIVE A VERY POOR EXAMPLE OF A NATION’S MORAL SANITY.
    WONDERFUL NEWS ABOUT THE YELLOWSTONE MONTANA WOLVES BEING NOW SAFE FROM HUNTING AND TRAPPING!
    I WILL SLEEP BETTER TONIGHT AT LAST.
    I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THE REST OF THE STATES WILL FOLLOW MONTANA’S EXAMPLE. KEEP UP THE PRESSURE AS I AM SURE YOU WILL AND MORE GOOD NEWS WILL BE ANNOUNCED. LOVE, PEACE AND JOY. NAMASTE

  11. I don’t want Canada to be like Europe. There aren’t many, if any, wild animals left in Europe. Somehow, the Great White North has become, or continues to be, a killing ground. We have seen the ecology suffer because we dumb humans don’t have a clue what we are doing when we wipe out thousands of animals. Yellowstone has an article about wolf culling. Apparently, it had a very negative effect on their grasslands due to grass feeding animalsbeing in overabundance, because there were no wolves to balance the herds. Wolves are known as a Keystone Species, did you know that? People who don’t believe that wanton killing of animals unbalances the ecosystem are also in denial of global warming. Anyone who could kill an animal for nothing (oh yeah, a beer and pizza) are basically psycho and probably like to torture domesticated animals as well. Blood lust is such caveman-like mentality. The idea of killing wolves to save them makes no sense at all. What logic flawed person came up with this? The same logic would apply to humans, then: kill humans to save them. Humans are the only species who can’t seem to figure out how to live on earth without polluting it. Every other creature leaves no footprint, including WOLVES, and they are necessary in the food chain. If you kill off one species, you’re unbalancing another.

    Let’s get over the name calling here. It doesn’t freaking matter WHERE you are from. Canada is a huge country, bigger than the US, with only 30 million, plus or minus a few, people. Many of the ‘heap big hunters’ are from other countries. Many are Canada’s First Nations, who think they have the right to exterminate creatures willy nilly. Wolf culling/killing/poisoning/trapping HAS TO STOP NOW. To do otherwise is inviting an ecological disaster.

    • I guess the “idea” is for humans to supplant the wolf in keeping the ungulate populations in check. The hubris of it all. :(

  12. Doug Smith’s words show that he could care less about wolves outside of Yellowstone. He buys into the policy that allows shooting/strangling/mangling wolves, saying that this will build “tolerance” . His on-going purpose in life is flying around in a helicopter darting wolves, wrapping a collar around their necks, and adding another number to his “how great I am” status.

  13. As much as I really, really do not agree with any wolf hunting (the images and videos have made me feel both ill and enraged), I think you’re missing Doug Smith’s point. Biology isn’t the science that supports a hunting season, but rather more appropriately anthropology. Appeasement may be the (at least currently) necessary evil to keep people who want to see all wolves dead from becoming emboldened into working towards making that a reality. When someone defies the federal government by killing wolves, fellow wolf-haters see them as heroes. But with established game species, hunters tend to hate poachers, because they see them as detracting from their own (blood)sport when they’re following the rules, and won’t hesitate to turn them in. So, unfortunately now some must be sacrificed so that there’s a future for the species… As wrong as that sounds. =\ Hopefully mindsets will change over time (and I think that it is) so that it will no longer be necessary.

    • Ross…I’m sorry but I have to disagree whole hardheartedly. Wolf hunters are bullies who DO NOT need to get their way. The grass roots wolf movement is alive and well and most of us do not want to see wolves slaughtered on the altar of appeasement. Wolves hunts are not needed, hundreds are killed every year by Wildlife Services. These are political hunts driven by greed and blood lust. Greed by the fish and game agencies and blood lust by the trophy hunters. Wolves are social animals and each member of the pack has a place and a role to play. By indiscriminately killing off individual wolves, hunters are destroying pack cohesion and causing chaos. Wolves were decimated and nearly exterminated in the lower forty eight once before and it can happen again, they are not coyotes, who are more adaptable. Wolves have lost 40% of their genetic diversity since since the late 1800’s due to mass slaughter, which has weakened their immune system, making them more susceptible to disease. They can’t take another extirpation. The wolf hunts must be stopped and wolves relisted. We will not settle for anything more. No compromise on this.

      For the wolves, For the wild ones,
      Nabeki

      • You’re preaching to the choir on the ethics or biology of it. Unfortunately, the reality is that people are going to keep killing wolves legally or illegally as long as they feel like it, and when it’s illegal many have the bonus motivation of feeling like they are sticking it to the government and standing up for local rights. To many wolf-haters, their hatred is about a whole lot more than the wolves themselves, even when they’re not aware of it.

        The statistics show that wolves are mostly just an easy scapegoat for any problems they face. It has to do with frustration with feeling that their lives are being increasingly dictated by people who live far away from them and share increasingly less in common with them. It has to do with a clashing of the old and the new, tradition and progression. I’ve even heard people insist that wolves were reintroduced (and continue to be) as part of a liberal conspiracy to drive them off their land and force them to move into the cities…

        Sadly, all the laws in the world protecting wolves won’t add up to much when there’s nothing *physically* stopping people from shooting or trapping wolves, burying them, and then keeping quiet about it. Especially in such remote areas, and most especially when states declare that they won’t expend any resources enforcing federal laws, (as we’ve already seen) basically giving their citizens the green light.

        The more upset they make us, the more we upset them. I don’t see how we will ever truly change their minds, and they are fiercely aware of us trying to shape their children’s minds to our way of thinking. It’s going to take at least several more generations…

    • No, the hunters and poachers tend to stick together because they seem to share more similarities than differences – anti gun control, anti-wildlife protection in a lot of cases. They believe there is strength in numbers. We should not elevate the unreasonable and ignorant demands and expectations of wolf haters to legitimacy.

      I hope the mindsets change over time also, but I think the wolves will be gone before that happens. The mindset hasn’t changed in over 200 years, since the first almost fully successful attempt at eradication. Does this give anyone hope that mindsets will change? If we do nothing and accept these flimsy rationales, they wolve will be lost again.

      • sorry that should say: If we do nothing and accept these flimsy rationales, the wolves will be lost, again.

  14. That is what a Wisconsin retired DNR expert said on Public Radio last year. It will be good for the wolf. Like- OK there is a wolf , no problem, cause I know that I can always kill him later. Ass—-.

  15. I’m just shocked by this suggestion – it’s like saying if you don’t like someone, go out and bully them until you get it out of your system. Terrible.

  16. It is just a way to make a Terrible Wrong a Right by trying to use double talk like we are a bunch of dumb a—-and were going to believe and listen to his B S. I have been around wolves for most of my life,my daughter too,it will be sad if my Granddaughter never gets to experience what I have. .

  17. so, to create “tolerance” for the barbaric, fat, white hunter we should do what? the solutions to that “problem” are mind-bogling

  18. here’s a great video – share it to get more people involved

    just click on this link above..

    • Thomas, I posted the video a few days ago.

      The Imperiled American Wolf by Brooks Fahy

      http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/the-imperiled-american-wolf-by-brooks-fahy/

      For the wolves, For the wild ones,
      Nabeki

      • Nabeki, I emailed the LA Times (Editor) and attached the video, above with a short letter. However,they don’t accept videos or letters that don’t have something to do with articles in their papers. What is the best way to get this video exposed to the media?

  19. Serial killers will justify their killing spree by saying the victim “asked for it”, “was an evil person”, “is better off” because they were killed.

    Torturing and killing wolves is not helping them. It will only render them extinct again and that will be happening very soon.
    To stop this carnage, we need to get rid of Trophy Hunters (the joy killers), eliminate electronic devices and “unfair” methods of hunting, and discontinue the barbaric practice of trapping.

    Remember— the mentality of a deranged person that kills school children and people gathered in public places is the same as the wolf hunters in the U.S. They believe that they have a RIGHT to kill.

    Toni Stark
    Truth About Wolves

  20. The video shows crearly these “hunters” are not so. This is pure hatred, cruelty and meanness on the part of these “men”. What is to hunt when the animal is trapped, defenseless. The ESA has to be reenacted again for the wolves. The craziness has to stop by law.

  21. My respect for Doug Smith is gone. He has joined the bizarre and creepy David Mech as a tool of sport killers, trapper sadists, and lying cattle ranchers. Last time I heard of Smith he was buzzing a Yellowstone grizzly in a helicopter and making a dumb comment about the griz he was harassing. Time for Smith and Mech to retire and just go away. They’ve done alot to hurt wolves the rest of us are tryIng to protect.

  22. “Yes, sir that is the best thing I have seen in my life!” yes, a lovely quote by such a ‘wonderful human being’. Pathetic, blood-thirsty, selfish cowards and their big guns. That is all they are, nothing more. Take the guns and their steel traps away from them and they quiver. I will do everything I can to help stop this and them! Rest in peace dear wolf!

  23. Please stop killing these animals. Pleas!

  24. I would like to see multiple peer-reviewed, scientific journals that support the claim that wolf hunting creates wolf tolerance. I have yet to see one. I would also like to see multiple peer-reviewed, scientific journals that disproves the claim that wolf hunting creates wolf tolerance. I’ve heard once that wolf hunting actually decreases wolf tolerance. It wasn’t a scientific journal, but I definitely think a study should be conducted on this, if it hasn’t already.

    I’ve read many times that the best method to create wolf tolerance is to EDUCATE people about them. Instead of catering to the anti-wolf forces and allowing the senseless slaughter of wolves, the Fish and Game Agencies should focus of using scientific facts to educate people about wolves and to disprove all the untrue and over-exaggerated anti-wolf propaganda that is out there. After all, their job is to PROTECT wildlife and ecosystems!

  25. why are these useless cowardly hunters a howl of sorrow for fallen wolf and all the fallen

    • Is there going to be an active protest at any MLA’s office or Christy Clark’s about the wolves? We are preaching to the choir here!

  26. Those people, who shot that wolf…they just go to hell for that.

  27. that is by far the saddest thing I have ever seenit is amazing how sad people can be how cruel they can beif only we were allowed to trap human beings poachers and shoot them right between the eyes and paint them whatever color and parade and drag there body’s aroundfor the rest of the world to seewe need to have hunting season open season on all poachers who hunt wolves

    • Jon…in Kenya they shoot poachers, they don’t mess around. Just watched a terrible show on African elephants. The Ivory trade is driving elephants into extinction. In some places 20 elephants a day are poached for their ivory. The Chinese are in league with some of the African governments…there is an insatiable craving for ivory in China…they carve it into statues and figurines. It said 80% of the Chinese middle class own ivory. China has to put a stop to this or African elephants are headed for extinction. It’s an unbelievable thought.

      For the wolves, For the wild ones,
      Nabeki

    • i second that!

  28. I may have an alternative to individual pochers. The greed factor in full play ones at least. First, your land must be legally posted. Check with state and town regulations. Comply exactly to them. Only once this is done, and if the poacher actually parks their truck/vehicle on your land you MAY have the right to do damage to the vehicle. Say, put a few slugs into a big diesel four wheel drive for example, right into the engine block will cost at least $4000 to replace. Those all terrain tires are not cheap either… But just having their vehicles towed off your land is your right. And if you catch these guy it has been my experience that they will rat out their best friends, all of their enemies and their own families if you have game wardens on the cellphone. Just be safe and do whatever you do with backup. Prayers for all who save animals!

  29. It disgusts me to know that there people out there that are this cruel. Especially to a freightened animal who would rather run and hide than put up a fight. I will never know why the trapper thought killing a helpless, injured wolf crying out in pain was the best thing he’d ever seen. This man has the mind of a criminal’s and in a perfect world, should be facing a jail sentence and animal cruelty charges. The fact that the government is allowing them to do this is completely unacceptable. How can we be so protective of the polar bear and the bald eagle and then do something like this to a wolf? Wildlife is wildlife. any threatened or endangered species should be protected. End of story.


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